As part of my research for the essay, Opening the Box—Rebirth and Reincarnation in 2025, I had hoped to speak with a Tibetan lama and discuss the subject in person. This proved more difficult than expected. Most Tibetan lamas only visit the UK periodically, and at that particular time no Lama was available. Nevertheless, after completing the essay, I was fortunate to connect with Geshe Namdak, a Dutch Tibetan Buddhist monk, resident teacher at Jamyang Centre in London, after he came out of retreat, who agreed to an interview. A Geshe in the Tibetan Buddhist Gelugpa school is a monk who has achieved a “Geshe” scholastic degree. So, perfect.

I arrived at the Jamyang Centre on a bright April afternoon. Tiny coloured Tibetan flags wound around the building like a rosary, fluttering in the wind. The moment I entered the building I breathed in the quiet, peaceful atmosphere. A stark contrast to the intensity of the city outside.

Geshe Namdak appeared dressed in Tibetan robes. He smiled warmly, we shook hands and he showed me around their Centre. I found the combination of an old restored London building with Tibetan spiritual artefacts very charming, like a hidden gem. It was also intriguing because the Centre belonged to the lineage of the two Tibetan lamas that had introduced me to Tibetan Buddhism in Nepal, when I was twenty-one. Their photographs were placed in central positions throughout the building.

The Geshe and I sat across from each other with cups of tea in the empty dining room while I brought out my list of questions.

3^rd Space: Could you outline briefly how reincarnation is understood in Tibetan Buddhism?

Geshe Namdak:  Tibetan Buddhism is based on the Indian sources of the great Masters of Nalanda. So, Tibetan Buddhism is not exactly Tibetan as such. Bearing that in mind, in the Buddhist texts of the Pramāṇavārttika, which is concerned with logic and reasoning epistemology, there’s a lot of reference to reincarnation from the point of view of logical reasoning. One of its central statements is that consciousness can only produce consciousness itself, and that consciousness doesn’t have a beginning and doesn’t have an end.

3^rd Space: It’s interesting that the understanding of reincarnation originates from the Indian Masters of Nalanda. Because Tibetan Buddhism seems to be quite unique in its sophisticated understanding of reincarnation. The concept of the Rinpoche, for example. (A Rinpoche is the name for a Tibetan Lama, or teacher, who is the direct reincarnation of a Lama from their previous lifetime).

There seems to be a real science behind the study of reincarnation in Tibetan Buddhism. I’m curious, where did this originate from?

Geshe Namdak: The basic principle comes from the Bodhisattva ideal in Buddhism, which is the desire to benefit all sentient beings over a long period of time. In other words, not just over one life, but over many lifetimes.

For example, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, has tried to benefit the people of Tibet and to preserve the teachings of the Buddha through reincarnating over many lifetimes. From the point of view of the authentic and traditional aspects of the teachings itself, this was the main purpose. But of course, when various aspects of culture and politics get involved, it becomes a bit more complex for various persons being recognised as incarnated teachers.

3^rd Space: Could you elaborate on what you mean?

Geshe Namdak: Well, it means if you recognise too many people who were Masters in the past but in their present life are not as capable of doing as much as they did in their previous life, it might be better not to recognise them too early, but to wait and see if they develop later on. Then they can be recognised.

3^rd Space: That’s very interesting. You mean they may have been a very evolved person in a past life, but after being reborn, they might lose touch with that development?

Geshe Namdak: Yes, as it can in one lifetime. The whole system of recognising incarnations as previous teachers in Tibetan Buddhism may have been a little too widely accepted. The Dalai Lama, especially in modern times, is a bit stricter. He is more careful not to recognise too many, but to see how they develop over time. Because if you really have developed your mind over many lifetimes, then you will show the signs. So, then it’s maybe better to recognise them at that time.

3^rd Space: For me, aside from the Buddhist teachings as such, I’m quite interested in the relationship between rebirth and evolution – that is, the evolution of consciousness. And at least in my imagination, how I think about rebirth is that the individual, who has had quite a developed life, would be considering, ‘how can I continue with that in the best circumstances in the next birth? ‘

Geshe Namdak: If you are quite highly developed and you have, to certain extent, a control over the process, then of course, you would want to choose parents that would cooperate with you for your future development. And between the moment you pass away and the moment you are reborn, obviously there’s a time frame that you have to work with. You can see with certain Lamas, they analyse with various forms of clairvoyance, when is the best time to die in order to have the right conditions for a good rebirth to be able to be of most benefit to sentient beings.

I’ve seen quite a few of my own teachers pass away and they knew exactly when this would happen. And they would prepare their minds for it. So, they are in complete control of the whole process. I witnessed this with one of my own teachers who was quite weak. He went up to his little temple and made some prayers. Then he lay down and passed away in complete control.

What is also interesting, looking at this from a scientific point of view, is that certain masters or teachers who are quite realised, when they pass away, they can stay in what we call the clear light mind of death. We have about thirteen cases who have been scientifically examined, and it seems to be the case that there is no brain activity being measured at the time of death, but the body doesn’t decay.

So, from the Buddhist perspective, we say that the subtle consciousness is still present. The subtler your consciousness becomes, the less dependent on the physical brain it is. So that means that clinically, the person is dead, there’s no heartbeat, no lung function. Within ten-or twenty seconds oxygen flow to the brain stops. The brain starts to die. But there are cases, and I witnessed a few cases myself, where there’s been a few days, or sometimes a few weeks, where the person’s body doesn’t decay. The person’s body doesn’t get stiff. It’s still flexible.

3^rd Space: Really?

Geshe Namdak: Yes. And there always remains a bit of warmth around the heart area. It’s a phenomenon that is a bit difficult to explain according to medical science.

3^rd Space: So, what would the Tibetan Buddhist explanation of this phenomenon be?

Geshe Namdak: The explanation is that when a person dies, they go through a process where the consciousness becomes subtler and subtler and sensory perception ceases to exist. Similar things happen when people have a near death experience. Falling asleep is very similar, it’s like a feeling of falling. If you really pay attention when you fall asleep, you don’t hear anything and sensory perception becomes dormant. Only mental consciousness is left.

The Buddhist teachings are mainly interested in the mental consciousness because sensory perception is limited. But mental consciousness is what goes from this life to the next. So, in Buddhism we call this the continuity of consciousness of an individual person. And the subtler consciousness becomes, the less dependent it is on the physical brain. We see the same thing in a very controlled, scientific environment. The Dutch cardiologist, Pim van Lommel, saw this phenomenon in near death experiences happening in hospitals, and he couldn’t explain it. So, then he managed to get some funding, and he dedicated a few years of his life to the research.

In a near death experience, when a person dies through cardiac arrest, sensory perception ceases to exist. There’s no heartbeat and no lung function. Oxygen flow to the brain stops. The brain dies, and the EEG goes flat. But when the person comes back to life, they talk about what they experienced, what they observed that was happening in the room, etc. There’s no brain function but there’s still perception. So, if we have a very subtle consciousness after we die, it’s possible that the body doesn’t decay even though the person is clinically dead.

3^rd Space: So why is the body not decaying in those cases?

Geshe Namdak:  Because consciousness is still in the body. As soon as consciousness leaves the body, sometimes after a few days or a few weeks, then the decay starts immediately. So, in this more subtle state, consciousness is still there, but the more course forms of consciousness, like sensory perception, have dissolved, or become dormant. Only a subtle form of mental consciousness is manifest, nothing else.

3^rd Space: Why would an individual choose to remain in that subtle form of consciousness?

Geshe Namdak: Well, the majority of people would just pass away. Habituation patterns would naturally propel them into future states of existence. The stream of consciousness has habituation patterns which have been built up over a lifetime or many lifetimes, and those patterns will decide which direction you will go in. It’s like a seed, when it has the right kind of conditions of heat and moisture, it will grow into a plant. So, in a similar way with consciousness, these seeds or imprints of habitual patters propel the person in a particular direction.  

3^rd Space: But for those thirteen individuals that you were talking about, why would they choose to remain in that subtle state of consciousness?  

Geshe Namdak:  Because when the consciousness becomes subtler, it’s very conducive to particular forms of meditation. They use that subtle consciousness to try to understand and eventually realise ultimate reality, and eliminate ignorance.

3^rd Space: So, we’re talking about quite advanced practitioners?

Geshe Namdak: Yes. These are people who have matured their minds during their lives, or through long retreats, and they’re capable of recognising these subtle states of consciousness. Most people don’t recognise the subtle consciousness because we have not trained ourselves in that aspect. So, if you are sufficiently trained, you can use this subtle consciousness. And you can do this during your sleep, for example, or just before falling into the dream state. Then you can do it at the time of death as well.

3^rd Space: So, when a person who’s a Tibetan Buddhist practitioner reaches old age, are these techniques something that they would normally be developing, to have more control over their reincarnation?

Geshe Namdak: It’s one aspect of it but the main point is to train your mind. Because if you train your mind, then you don’t have to worry about your next life because automatically, you will go in the right direction through positive patterns.

3^rd Space: That makes sense to me. So, in that case, a Lama who has developed their consciousness, for example, would trust that the process is going to have the best possible result.

Geshe Namdak: Yes, but of course, they do train their minds, so then they don’t have to worry about it. And then at the time of death, they use the subtle consciousness to contemplate things.

3^rd Space: Obviously, for a Western person, there’s often a fear of death because we think there is only one life. We die, and that is it. It’s fascinating to me how we have developed in many respects in the West, especially on the scientific front, and yet death is something we have hardly looked into, even though it’s something we are all going to experience. I find that quite extraordinary.

Would you like to see a greater investigation and acceptance of reincarnation? And what do you think would be the benefits of it?

Geshe Namdak: I think there would be many benefits. One benefit on a personal level is that people would have less fear. And people would start to feel more responsible for their life. So, the ethical dimension, I think, is a very important part of it.

Perhaps the positive side of the state of the world is that people are starting to feel a sense of responsibility. And when the ethical aspect of our humanity is developed, it will help society at large to think a little bit more about the future than we have done so far.

3rd Space: An obvious question that people have about reincarnation is what is it exactly that reincarnates? I like the way you’ve explained it, which is that there’s an individual stream of consciousness that passes from one life to another.

Geshe Namdak: Well consciousness is subjective right? It is a stream of moments of cognition, or as we say in Tibetan Buddhism, moments of clarity and knowing. So, this continuity never stops. It has no beginning, and it has no end. But it remains individual because we have subjective experiences. It’s very clear that we all experience things differently. And we experience things differently because in previous states of existence, we have had different kinds of inclinations, different kinds of habituation patterns that cause us to have different experiences in the present time.

3^rd Space: So, to ask a slightly different question, would you say that there is within the human being, given the right conditions, a tendency towards development?

Geshe Namdak: That’s the thing. Consciousness can be developed. We know we can eliminate disturbing emotions and reactions, it’s possible. And if you develop your mind over a substantial period of time, let’s say, two decades, that puts a habituation pattern in your consciousness, as a result of which development might become easier. How did Mozart, for example, know at such a young age know how to compose such complicated music? Information never gets lost. And that’s a very interesting phenomenon. If for example, you study memory and hyperthymesia, it’s a very fascinating science.

Hyperthymesia is a condition where an individual can recall an exceptionally large number of their life experiences in great detail. They can remember dates, specific events, and even the weather on a particular day with remarkable accuracy. This is even to the point that they can remember every event of their life.

3^rd Space: You’re saying we have that capacity, that there are a lot of functions of consciousness that can be developed.

Geshe Namdak: What I am trying to say is that the information never gets lost. We don’t remember everything but that does not mean that the information is not there. We just don’t have the capacity to access that information. But certain people do have that capacity, so that means that the information never gets lost. So, if information never gets lost, it implies that if you develop your mind that development also doesn’t get lost either.  

3^rd Space: I have heard that often just before someone dies, they have a kind of life review in which memories that had apparently been completely forgotten, come back.

Geshe Namdak: This is because the mind gets subtler. And we see that in meditation techniques, if you accomplish what we call Samadhi, that is, calm abiding, single pointed concentration of the mind, and you’re capable of staying focussed on your object, then these aspects of clairvoyance and memory just arise spontaneously. It’s as if you have a lake which is completely still. It reflects everything. But if it’s disturbed by the wind, then it doesn’t reflect very much. So, the mind is probably very similar.

3^rd Space: So, just to return to my question, would you say then that the propensity of the human being is toward development?

Geshe Namdak: If you put effort in that direction, yes. The potential is there. It also depends on how you define development.

3^rd Space: I think what I’m trying to get at, and it’s just my opinion, is that given the right conditions, a human being will lean towards development; and by development I’m not talking about necessarily the development of memory and those kinds of capacities, but more the development of consciousness itself.

Geshe Namdak: If we look at human beings on the planet, there is constant development. But whether certain developments are constructive or not, that could be a question. We develop certain aspects, but other aspects maybe not be as constructive, because those habituation patterns of the past force us to go in a particular direction. But, if you develop more constructive ways of thinking and try to eliminate disturbing emotions and afflictions, then slowly, you can eliminate more types of suffering and become a better human being.

3^rd Space: The reason I am asking this is because psychologists like Carl Rogers, for example, had the very strong belief that if you put an individual in the right circumstances, they will try to evolve because it’s inherent in the human being to want to develop. Even though, obviously many human beings are carrying such a karmic load, that it may not look like that from the outside. But obviously, once the individual becomes drawn to the idea of enlightenment, or real awakening, then their development becomes established in a very conscious way.

Geshe Namdak: So, if you do that in a constructive way, and you habituate your mind to it, and you do this over several lifetimes, then things become very stable. That is what we say.

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What stayed with me long after my conversation with Geshe Namdak that afternoon, was realising that if we give ourselves in this lifetime to the development of our subjective stream of consciousness, then there is nothing to fear at death. I found this very liberating. 

With thanks to Alex Grey for the image, “Dying Man”.